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David Knudsen

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July 06, 2009

Comments

A nice thoughtful post.

Great photos! Not exactly for the brochures and billboards through.


Q1a,b,c:

What is your opinion of those homeowners that now have mudfront property at Chapin and otherwise which they purchased ($350,000"s+ for vacant land or homes in the $800,000's+) on Toronto Reservoir and grieving their assesment? Do they have a case? And if so, who then picks up the tab for the decrease tax revenue?


Q2a,b:

It's gotta be tough to show trophy second home properties in this current economic climate -granted.

However, what happens when you have an appointment and your clients now see lovely wetlands with blue herons and mallards (good for the Rachel Carson devotees) - but not exactly what one expects when what they thought would be a "deep crystal clear mountain lake with blue water lapping at your dock only steps from your hand crafted home?

Or, do you just bypass these properties until the water - if and when - gets refilled?

Thank you.


Q.

Q, regarding Q.1, if property values decrease then, yes, homeowners likely do have a case to grieve their assessments. Establising value, however, may be difficult if there aren't sales to provide comps for the assessor. At Swinging Bridge, the lake was drawn down for 2 years for dam repairs, and a number of homeowners successfully grieved their assessments. Who picks up the tab? When the total assessed value of a township decreases and the budget stays the same, then the tax levy goes up, affecting all property owners.

Regarding Q.2, Toronto is a tough sell with the water level down, as was Swinging Bridge when the lake was drawn down for the repair there. I've had more interest this year in non-lakefront houses and lots there than lakefront ones. With non-lakefront, the lake isn't as critical a component of value. The prices for non-lakefront properties are substantially less expensive, which may be appealing in these economic times. And if you're taking your quad to play at the lake, it isn't such a big deal whether you access the lake at the shoreline or drive another hundred yards across a meadow to reach the water's edge.

I actually think Toronto is very pretty right now, with the acres of green meadow grass gently sloping down to the water. It's quite nice for swimming, because the slope at the current water edge is much more gradual than when the water is near the high water mark. And as for public access, it also is better. You can drive right to the water's edge, lay out a picnic on the grass and have a great day. And because folks are parking right at the water's edge, the limited parking available at the end of Moscoe Road isn't an issue.

Dave - I looked for sarcasm in your above reply when you started talking about the green meadows, but didn't detect any - at least they planted grass this year where the lake used to be. Better than the mud. That was definitely a good move.

One has to wonder Where were the title companies in all of this? If Alliance isn't doing anything illegal, shouldn't the title companies have raised red flags at this exact possibility?

You're dealing here with a very dangerous game. This body of water does NOT stand alone. It connects with others and will in turn adversely impact them. Call a limnologist and ask him to describe to you what is really at stake here. You don't think the surrounding water table will be impacted by this? What was once a lake is now a meadow and you like that aesthetic, do you?

rr, I'm not the one managing the reservoir or making the decisions. I just said I thought the meadows that have sprouted between the shoreline and the water's edge are kind of pretty. In my opinion, they are. That doesn't mean they should be permanently maintained there.

Rod, I don't think the grass was planted. The same thing happened over at Swinging Bridge. Meadow grasses just kind of grew.

Alliance denies anything is out of the ordinary. The FERC license allows it to draw the reservoir down to 1,170 feet mean sea level, and the company maintains the current level is above this minimum. The normal draw-down is 1,188 feet msl.

........

Is this still their position?

Isn't this the lake/reservoir where the $4 million home was recently sold. Also, I am curious why Alliance would think their tax assesment should be lowered to $500,000 if they they just paid over $5,000,000 a few years ago? (I assume from your post they are the same pieces of property).

In terms of the reservoir access, perhaps a compromise would be to expand the Moscoe road access (with better parking and perhaps a picnic area) and to then close the other access at the Dam. I have been down that road a long time ago, and it was not a good access point for boats anyway. Of course, I suppose some people liked to use that area for fishing from the dam, but more likely a place for kids to drink from what I could tell.

Brad

'Meadow grasses' - your a master of language, that's for sure, David. Next we will see a listing - "Have your own two million dollar house with lake views accented with meadow grasses. Act Now. Won't last."

david, would you mind changing 'your' to 'you're', please?"

Poetic justice.
$4 million dollars you say.

yes...for acres and acres of green meadow grass...

~fondue

David,
you can find the water levels for Toronto at the USGS website
They post them each year. I pulled the numbers from 1993-2007. The lowest average water height is 1,190.68 (almost 20ft higher than it is today!) and the average high is 1,215.97!
To me this proves that Alliance Energy has purposely drawn down the water level well below what could/should be normally expected. A fundamental change is needed and should be brought about by our elected officials. Whether you're a "rich Chapin resident" or the "average local Joe" we are all suffering.

JW, interesting stats. How did you find them on the USGS website? I've been banging around on geodata.gov on the Inland Water databases listed and can't pull up Toronto, even using the gage number, 01433100. Any help would be much appreciated.

David, sorry for the delay. simply go to google, then enter the following in the search window. USGS 01433100
It returns all the different years (PDF files) and the water levels.
I have a spreadsheet if you want it listing the years from 1993-2008

has this not been a public passage fpr more than 7 years? I was taught that if somebody traveresd your property on a regular basis to gain acces to public area's it becomes a public rite of way .how does someone go about taking away the public rite of way .one that has been in afect for 50+ years !! it must be nice to have enought money (power) too do what ever you want. maybe i will buy two pices of property one on each side of the road an erect a toll. waite the indians were going to do that and the goverment said that they could'nt. not enough power (money)

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